Wilson's outburst was just another in the "proud" tradition of what the late, eminent political science scholar Richard Hofstadter called "the paranoid style in American politics". It entails a faith that if you scare people enough with false claims about "killing grandma" with "death panels" or giving illegal aliens "cadillac health care", they will forget that the politicians on your side of the aisle are in the pockets of the health care lobbyists and will not want to change the health care delivery system as long as its not so bad as to stop making profits.
Both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of this "paranoid style", by the way, and both parties are quick to get help for their re-election from the medical establishment. The difference really is that Democrats in general have realized that the jig is up, and that something comparable to the European and Canadian models has to be done to reform medical care in this country, or the 16-18 percent of the gross domestic product already consumed by the drug/doctor/hospital/insurance leviathans will crash the economy. President Obama tried yesterday to lay out a formula that will be ripped to shreds by detractors, but, as he said a couple days ago, what plan does the opposition have?
Nothing. Just the status quo. A status quo that requires 14,000 Americans losing their health insurance every day, and over a million last year; where sixty-two percent of Americans who file bankruptcy do so for health care costs (source : Journal of American Medicine and Harvard University, 2007) ; where people lose their insurance in the middle of their cancer treatment when its found out they forgot to report they once had a bad case of acne; where families who have children with pre-existing medical conditions pay a couple thousand dollars for insurance EVERY MONTH just to get some care. Where 46-47 million legal Americans don't have health care and health care giants like Aetna and Blue Cross tell their private-sector bureaucrats to make more money for stockholders by searching for ways to deny patients care even after they paid premiums for years.
Is this a system worth saving? Worth shouting about? No, this is an abomination that needs reforming badly. No, Obama health care plans are not perfect and they will take years to get more millions covered while trying to hold down costs. But what is worth saving in the old system? Not much I think.
The insurance companies really aren't feeling the love lately. ..
ReplyDeleteInsane how many blue collars are standing with the vested interests.
What's in the water over there?
The 'free market' vs social democracy:
ReplyDeleteOne one hand, (1) survival of the fittest; (2) root, hog, or die
On the other, (2) Higher taxes, but (2) coverage for everyone.
America needs to evolve.
Beats me, Frank. I can't figure it myself.
ReplyDeleteOn this I totally agree, Astra.
ReplyDeleteI used to watch American politics with a bemused eye. Now? I'm just staggered that a country founded on justice and freedom can have got it's self in this place. Worse, I'm scared that the most powerful nation on the planet is allowing it's self to become a laughing stock, which is not good for the rest of us out here.
ReplyDeleteCome on America, pull it together. PLEASE!
As a friend of mine said today, "If we screw up next year, we've screwed up civilization." I agree. It's time to get real and pull this together.
ReplyDeleteAbsent a sea-change in American thought, frankly, I'm doubtful.
Some devastating statistics you give, Doug, particularly about 62% of bankruptcies coming about because of healthcare debts. I very much hope President Obama gets his legislation and that the vested interests you mention above are defeated. (At least nobody threw their shoes at him !)
ReplyDeleteI find it hard to believe with as much arguing and debate that occurs on the floor this was the first time anyone challenged what a President was saying. I am surprised it is getting this much attention. Our country is based on the premise of freedom of speech. He spoke what he believed. He did not use inappropriate language. He did not bring the speech to an end. He said "you lie".
ReplyDeleteYou're right, Jim. We need to move ahead and join other developed nations in caring for its citizens. However one regards "American exceptional-ism", the health care situation is not going to be solved by endless catcalls and calls for ideological purity of the Left or Right.
ReplyDeleteYes, no shoes were thrown this time. I guess that Iraqi reporter missed his cab to the Capitol :-)
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing how much power the health care lobbyists have, and doing nothing is no longer an option.
Yes, me too, Fred. But this seems to be the first time for a Presidential Address.
ReplyDeletePresidents on both sides have been booed (Clinton and Bush II), but think of all the other controversial Presidents (FDR in the Depression, Nixon in 1974) who addressed the Congress without shout-outs from any Congressmen.
I guess I'm wondering out loud "why this President?" and "why this issue?" Something about an ex-aide of Strom Thurmond heckling the first black President makes me wonder if Congressman Wilson was motivated by something more than just concern about illegal aliens getting health care. This is the first time that a black man has been our Chief Executive. I suspect it must upset some who are used to that office being occupied by a white man of generally white Southern, (or white-Southern friendly like Reagan) identity.
That's my suspision anyway. Anyway "You Lie!" is not too bad in itself.
Thanks for helping keep things in broader perspective, Fred.
While UK citizens are used to the 'bear garden' of the Commons, British politicians cannot call each other liars, it's not allowed. But this outburst can't even be put down to a heat of the moment outburst of conviction politics, he did it for money apparently.
ReplyDelete(CNN) -- Less than a day after Rep. Joe Wilson formally apologized to President Obama over his "you lie" outburst, a campaign aide confirms that the South Carolina Republican has raised "more than $200,000" after the now-infamous moment.
Rep. Joe Wilson, R-South Carolina, shouts "You lie!" during President Obama's speech Wednesday night.
News of that cash haul comes after Wilson directly asked in a Web video for campaign cash to fend off attacks from political opponents and said he's standing by his opposition to Democratic efforts at health care reform.
I always wondered why nobody ever shouts out "Thou liest!" at the PM during Question Time. That's a good rule.
ReplyDeleteI think you might be right there, AA. Wilson will be the flavor of the month for the neo-Conservatives for awhile. I can't say it was premeditated, but I can't help thinking some strategy was involved here.
By the way, his presumptive Democratic Party challenger for that South Carolina district also raised big money--about $400,000 bucks.
That being said, I've enjoyed seeing the "bear garden" in the House of Commons when its been carried by the non-profit government channel, C-Span, over here. (C-Span normally covers the Congress and other political events in Washington with an eye to being even-handed. ) In our system, the President is, whomever he or she (in the future) might be, is an invited guest of the Joint Session of the Legislative Branch. Traditionally, deference from "shout-outs" is accorded.
The PM, of course, doesn't get quite so lucky your way, and so is subject to sharp exchanges like this one between an MP named Ming Campbell and the Bush's Former Best Mate, Tony Blair, back in January of 2007.
Menzies (pronounced 'Mingis' hence 'Ming') Campbell is a Liberal Democrat grandee and the shortlived 2006-07 leader of the party.He is also part of the Scottish mafia that is inappropriately and disproportionately influential in a Parliament that has limited jurisdiction in their own constituencies.
ReplyDeleteHe is thus part of the problem known as the 'West Lothian Question' as is Gordon Brown and many other senior Scottish parliamentarians.
Personally I detest the 'yah-boo sucks' style of debate at Westminster which is no more than an unruly Public School debating society in my opinion. Whenever I watch parliament on TV of even 'live' in the Commons I am always reminded of Alice in Wonderland which to me is an allegory of the British establishment with whom I share very little fellow feeling. The whole paraphernalia of the British state is to me absurd, the monarchy, the oligarchy and the landed aristocracy lend an air of the surreal to the entire proceedings.
I have attended a fair number of demonstrations over the years that have the stated if unlikely aim of taking Parliament 'back to the people', it hasn't happened yet, but such demos do represent the rude intrusion of reality... into what is otherwise a rather polite Punch and Judy show.
They ruffle the feathers of our rulers and remind them of how unloved they really are.
However so far as heckling Obama is concerned, it should be noted I think that the British PM is not head of state....so in UK terms this is more like heckling the Queen, there should be a lot more of that I think.
Thanks for the background on Ming Campbell and the Scottish Mafia, AA.
ReplyDeleteI agree posing insults in the veiled form of questions is not the best type of debate. I like your dissertation of the proceedings of Parliament. I rather like the idea of our President answering tough questions, and taking some feather-ruffling and give and take and all that--but he should be given fair warning, as the PM has.
As for heckling the Queen: I know from sources that HRM is a regular Multiply "lurker" on my site, so I'm confident greater Royal Heckling Opportunities will be included in her Christmas Speech. (Hint, hint.)
I think they still chop your head off for that Doug
ReplyDeleteMight be worth it if, AA, if I got the VIP tour of the Tower of London instead of the fast shuffle they usually give us tourists.
ReplyDeleteAn abomination indeed. When Americans have to seek help and health care from other countries because their own country can't or won't help them (or are just too dammed expensive) then all Americans should be embarrassed and fix it.
ReplyDeleteMany of them are embarrassed, Iri Ani, just not the loudest critics.
ReplyDeleteAs someone pointed out on your blog there are some health clinics in America that treat patients on a sliding scale. However, the two that operate in my area are chronically short of funds and understaffed. Most people wind up in the emergency room if they get sick, and by then its too late for preventative medicine.
Also, doctors are most often paid by procedures rather than by keeping patients well. (They are so afraid of being sued for malpractice, something Obama hasn't addressed sufficiently if you ask me.) Often, doctors in the US order extra and expensive tests on people that have insurance just to play it safe or because they know the insurance companies will pay out because there is little incentive to control insurance costs. (The costs are passed on to the insured in annual higher premiums that are three times higher than the regular rate of inflation.)
This lack of attention to keeping people well and doctors free of expensive malpractice insurance creates a system that overcharges for every hospitalized patient
Sadly, many ordinary people--especially senior citizens-- are afraid of Obama's program because they feel their Medicare coverage (for those over 65) will be severely reduced. None of which is true, as Obama indicated in a recent speech, but how do you prove that to people who think socialism is communism equals the government decided who lives and dies?
The scare tactics of the "free marketeers" and ultra-conservatives are hard to stop. It;s easier to scare people than to inform them, at least when its something as basic as health care.
Good Golly, I just learned Wilson, is on Tricare, a Gov’t run health plan for vets. Secondly, back in 2003, he voted to allow Government to reimburse hospitals for services to illegals. I now think his outburst during the President’s speech was planned.
ReplyDeleteYou know ever since I saw that doco on medical tourism I have been wondering how the US Medical Industry can possibly justify the huge costs to their consumers. The discrepancy between what that woman was being quoted for in the US and what she was charged for the same procedure here (including all the airfares, jotel stays etc) is huge. And our private hospital wasn't acting altruistically either, we can be sure they were making a profit from her. As was the hotel. As was the airlines.
ReplyDeleteI know from my own experience that a full body scan costs $150NZ, an x-ray $90NZ (a New Zealand dollar is worth about 70cUS currently). You would need an awful lot of tests to use up $50,000 to $60,000US difference in charge out rates between our two countries.
Its an interesting point that I had not thought of about the malpractice suits and I agree whole heartedly that that scenario needs addressing. The American practice of suing everything that moves tends to leave the rest of us a little gobsmacked I think. In NZ we can't sue doctors at all, but we can complain to some medical body I think. If we are injured through medical interventions meant to help us, we make a claim to the Accident Compensation Commission (ACC) which is a government-run department to compensate and provide ongoing help to all injured New Zealanders.
In New Zealand it was seen as being plain rude.
ReplyDeleteInteresting information--especially the illegals part. Thanks for the input Mike.
ReplyDeleteYes, and salary costs for doctors and nurses in NZ and the United States can't be that far apart. So where is all the extra $50,000 going, Iri Ani? The medical establishment makes the brass hats ion our Pentagon look like pikers. After all, the US military budget is ONLY 560 billion a year, over 500 percent higher than what Russia and China spend on defense combined.
ReplyDeleteThere's something nuts about a system that ships a patient halfway around the world for a procedure, even if it is a nice spot.
I know from a friend of mine ( a registered nurse) who told me about one poor guy who had to fly to India to get some expensive (for the US ) shoulder surgery. He flew back with his shoulder in a cast for twenty hours between Indian and Hawaii. (In coach class!) Very painful.
There is talk about trying to cap medical malpractice. The trouble is that the trail lawyers in the USA have a lot of clout (through campaign contributions) with the Democratic Party.
I think Obama is going to have to show some real leadership on this one. My fingers are crossed. At least he is the first American President since Lyndon Johnson back in the 1960's to actually get this close to a major health care reform bill. But, as they say in American football, he still has to get this across the goal line without it being too watered-down.
That was my take as well. When an elected official interrupts a President's speech that shows a marked lack of respect.
ReplyDeleteNo Congressperson ever called Richard Nixon a liar in his appearences before that body, though he was one of the worst we've ever had.
Even Piggy Muldoon would have been treated better!
Hey Piggy was the worst heckler of all. He stood on his rostrum and heckled the journalists. Most of the country was petrified of him.
ReplyDeleteLois has outlined the NZ costs for full hip replacement in her comment under my post, $28,000NZ of which the surgeon wound up with a measly $3,200NZ.
ReplyDeleteOn Abdul's comment (and the video he highlighted) the extra $50,000US costs seem to be buying very rich men lots of very big houses amongst other things. No wonder they are upset at the drop in house prices since the recession.
Without being an expert by any means it seems that the health reform is already watered down. As Mary Evelyn stated, those with insurance will get some improved protection, those without - nothing.
I stand corrected, Iri Ani.
ReplyDeleteI know he was a serious drinker while on the job, so why not a heckler of journalists? (Shades of Nixon, of course.)
Good Grief, what a marvelous Mayor Of Chicago Piggy would have been ;-)
I' m afraid I wouldn't bet against that assessment.
ReplyDelete