tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post8818288539721005865..comments2023-09-06T01:53:41.634-07:00Comments on doug's Site: Obama's Slippery Slope?: Drone Strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, SomaliaDoug's Bloghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09219952832674415239noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-29369848808329673202012-06-03T00:01:15.000-07:002012-06-03T00:01:15.000-07:00Thanks Jack. Thanks Jack. doug noakeshttp://dnoakes.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-66217802601473060482012-06-01T20:07:42.000-07:002012-06-01T20:07:42.000-07:00Just finished reading this and it does give much t...Just finished reading this and it does give much to think on Doug. Extremely interesting.<br />Initiative Stainhttp://initiativestain.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-23147024195068210302012-06-01T09:49:13.000-07:002012-06-01T09:49:13.000-07:00You're making sense Heidi. As I pointed out m...You're making sense Heidi. As I pointed out myself, there are a lot of issues here. <br /><br />Conscripting has it's drawbacks, as was revealed, I believe, in the opening of World War I--you get a lot of big armies and navies assembled and leaders want to use them. <br /><br />In my lifetime I saw how young people were mobilized against the Vietnam War. This was in part because people they knew who were subject to or had friends and loved ones six weeks away from being in a jungle halfway around the world. Or they themselves. <br />Of course many people in other nations protested the Vietnam War and personally I'm glad they did. It brought my brother home from the Far East likely faster (and alive) than he might have been. <br /><br /> I now understand, Heidi, why many of these "think-tank" experts in editorials and talk shows promote the idea of an "all-volunteer" army. They are less likely to face the kind of storm of protests we had here in the Vietnam era. <br /><br />I guess if people blame Obama for the bad economy and the massive losses in home equity and jobs from the Reagan and Double Bush administrations, it's an easy step to blame him for ALL policies on the foreign policy front. <br /><br />I realize we in the developed world--USA, Europe, et al-- make enemies by our very existence. "The Clash of Civilizations" I believe is real. But their can be a difference between envy and enmity and the pure hatred that brings people to acts of terrorism. That comes down to leadership and having intelligent people in office with some empathic capacity. I heard Romney this morning blaming Obama for the failure of democracy to produce instant stable leadership in the Arab Spring. He is selling the disingenuous idea that any president can mold far-off nations with hundreds and (in the case of Egypt) thousands of years of political history and, by some alchemy of foreign policy, turn a culture dictatorship in a revolutionary phase into an instant mirror of the USA, UK, Germany, Canada, et al. It's asinine! <br /><br />I agree we need to listen more to people like your husband who have seen war for what it is and not in the abstract. I don't think people understand what war really is in many parts of Washington. They don't have to it seems unless enough people have a personal stake in a ground war that has gone on too long. Most Americans want the troops from Afghanistan home--but how bad do they want them home?doug noakeshttp://dnoakes.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-64097811196067728072012-06-01T09:32:10.000-07:002012-06-01T09:32:10.000-07:00That's just it, Chuck. Nobody in their right m...That's just it, Chuck. Nobody in their right mind hasn't had enough of multiple deployments of men and women to these places. Afghanistan is a hopeless mess--actually, we are at least on track to getting out of there, the question remains would a new administration push us into another conflict so the "new guy" can "win his spurs"? <br /><br />Drone strikes have a short-term effect obviously. It's harder to plan to blow up a passenger plane when you are dead. But you raise the biggest question--what about the long-term? Other nations are developing this drone-strike capability, I heard yesterday on public radio that we will likely be selling high-tech predator drones to other NATO nations soon. Can Israel and saudi Arabia (to name two nations) be far behind. Sooner or later other nations like China or North Korea will develop them on their own or off the black markets. <br /><br /> What the hell do we do then? There is a reason for international law and it needs to be applied even if the enemy we are fighting is not a nation-state but a series of terrorist organizaions--because we don't know who will be the enemy of tomorrow.<br /><br />Any country no matter how bad their government can build nasty weapons. What differeniates the democracies should be a reluctance to engage in war unless it's a last resort.doug noakeshttp://dnoakes.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-17320730294879298382012-06-01T09:16:57.000-07:002012-06-01T09:16:57.000-07:00I hav no doubt in my mind a President Romney would...I hav no doubt in my mind a President Romney woulds simply make things worse, Marty. He has no background in military affairs and would likely roll over to the generals and the Neo-Cons t appear tough. <br /><br />Obama can say "no" to these people who want a extension of the strikes. He has taken us out of Iraq. Romney would likely invade some country just to look tough. Or just acquiesce to a series of strikes and half-baked operations--the classic "chicken-hawk" style that men like George W Bush and Cheney exemplified.doug noakeshttp://dnoakes.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-12630255765049743152012-06-01T09:10:59.000-07:002012-06-01T09:10:59.000-07:00Yes ,I do agree that the impetus for going into ...Yes ,I do agree that the impetus for going into Afghanistan, which seemed right for about 85-90 percent of Americans in 2001-02 is long gone. The oxymoron that is Afghan's National Army is not of much use--they are good at shaking down civilians and inciting ethnic grudges. The guerillas who fight well are lined up against what is left of the NATO forces in these so-called "Tribal Regions" o nthe border with Pakistan. It's their turf. And, as you say, their language and advantage. This is too much like Vietnam and we know where that went. <br /><br /> The militants cannot be got at, hence the drones. There is no national cohesiveness in Af-Pakistan and so we have troops and marines killed and maimed to build something that will come apart when we leave. <br />And, yes, God help the ordinary citizen who has not had a time of peace since 1979! <br /> <br />I don't even want to say anything about the Iraq War. . <br /><br />Good advice Oakie. <br /> This is a country ruled by tribal leaders and councils. <br /><br /> Karzai is a crook as is his brother. The former is essentially the High Prince of Kabul. When George Washington long ago talked about avoiding foreign entanglements, these are the kind of local b-astards he would have been talking about.doug noakeshttp://dnoakes.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-68797115813736607632012-06-01T05:45:47.000-07:002012-06-01T05:45:47.000-07:00agree--one problem our army is not conscript anymo...agree--one problem our army is not conscript anymore you sign up you have choice personally I think that is why not so much noise from the civillians<br /><br />drones personally i never liked them--but the military especially seems to<br />personally don't understand why we all blame it on the Pres.<br /><br />about creating enemies maybe but we seem to get enough of those anyway some are just jealous of our tecknology good bad or indifferent<br />it is always a hard question my hubby was military for over 30yrs. in two differnt branches and saw a lot didn't like war but he was a Doc so he helped patch them up--oh my<br />some of what I see on these things has nothing to do with Drones it has to do with Obama <br />also it is good to be against things but we also need a solution and not just to keep prophozing the end of America and then say well I will just leave it and don't vote on and on and on <br /><br />another thought soldiers are always in harms that is the part about being in the military that never goes away no matter what century you fight wars<br />does all this make senseheidi breuerhttp://starfishred.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-11987596565291097142012-05-31T22:45:07.000-07:002012-05-31T22:45:07.000-07:00Here! Here!Here! Here!Oak's Poetry Cornerhttp://oakie1.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-63987928771943004292012-05-31T22:20:44.000-07:002012-05-31T22:20:44.000-07:00My feelings about this subject are extremely compl...My feelings about this subject are extremely complex and would require more than a passing comment to someone's blog -- actually it would require a lengthy blog by itself -- but suffice to say that I'm not happy with the current policy but neither am I happy at the options we have as an alterative.<br /><br />What the U.S. administration -- under either Bush or Obama -- seems to have forgotten is that the reason we have rules of international engagement (International Law) is that nations' interests are best served when the consider that a rule Nation A finds expeditious to break today may be the rule Nation B finds equally compelling to use against Nation A later, when the technology and circumstances have out-paced events. <br /><br />In other words: we may find it handy to break rules and use drones to find al-Quaeda today but when China uses drones to launch an attack on us in a decade hence, we will have no moral defense to complain.chuck thttp://deckhand.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-26054188971585429692012-05-31T21:07:59.000-07:002012-05-31T21:07:59.000-07:00I am glad those drone strikes are going on....less...I am glad those drone strikes are going on....less we have to send our troops in to fight and get themselves killed off. I dont think anything our president does is ever good enough for the Republicans...they question everything and never have one good word for what has been done to keep us safe. <br /><br />And I am sure if Romney was the president there would be another war and another war and another war going on...they like the bloodshed but dont like to get their hands involved in it. I would like to see all those that favor a war go and fight along side the men and women out there right now. If they had to shed blood they would think twice about getting us involved in wars that are unnecessary. <br /><br />And I also think our president should try and get the economy on track again instead of trying to match spears with those nut cases on the other side. Cant he do whatever to make things happen? On his own without having congress say "Hell NO" each time?Marty Bhttp://martyb2746.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-18195847834646307032012-05-31T21:06:45.000-07:002012-05-31T21:06:45.000-07:00Great blog, Ron!
I think that it is a time for r...Great blog, Ron! <br /><br />I think that it is a time for reflection by the US leadership. Or it would be if that election wasn't looming. <br /><br />Afghanistan and Iraq now seem like unsolvable problems because the initial impetus that was gained by the invasion of those sovereign states was quickly lost as soon as allied troops ceased to have an enemy to face directly. Those two countries were ruled by b*stards, because that is the only way (in this day) to rule them. Having a "politically correct" invading force just left everyone having not a clue where they were up to. And there is sooo much hatred for the allies, especially for the US itself. Way more than pre- 9.11. <br />How do you win the hearts and minds when you occupy a country and address its ordinary people in your tongue not theirs? Screwed from day one. Baaaaad management.<br /><br />Time to pull out. Even if the Afghans and Iraqis faced civil war they are better getting that out of their systems than the present limbo being maintained. After all, it is the ordinary citizen who continues to suffer and die because of occupation.<br /><br />It may seem like a defeat for Obama to draw US troops back, but Nam and Somalia were political defeats, not really military defeats as no-one really won those conflicts. And no-one is winning in the Middle-East either. But the Afghans will in the end, and one faction of the Iraqis (Probably Sadam's) will as well. So why put off the inevitable simply to preserve the conquering ego of the US Presidency? (Whoever is in charge).<br /><br />Pull out Obama and win the respect of those who want the troops brought home. Win the respect of those who are aware of the history of being mired in worlds of conflict where you can never win. Many democrats and some republicans will see the sense off stopping the pointless waste of human life and the meaningless expenditure of important human and financial resources.<br /><br />Sometimes you have to fight to defend yourself. Neither Afghanistan or Iraq were invaded for that reason and both campaigns have been abject failures. Draw a line underneath them, pull out and regroup.<br /><br />And certainly do not look for new foes and woes in that region. You have not come near to mastering the balls that you are already trying to juggle with.<br /><br />I hope that President Obama will be one day judged a wise and great man. Decisivly and bravely ceasing to fight unwinable wars would be a big step in that direction. <br /><br />Almost all the many thousands of people who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan have had absolutely nothing to do with 9.11. <br />Time that people went home to their families.Oak's Poetry Cornerhttp://oakie1.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-74760569619700416512012-05-31T20:37:55.000-07:002012-05-31T20:37:55.000-07:00Well I think there are a lot of important question...Well I think there are a lot of important questions here, Heidi, which is why I ask people to weigh both sides of the arguments here. At least I hope that's what I'm doing. Where I'm at is that people who mean to make war on the USA or any Western nation should know they have a target on their backs. But can we reduce the killing to those who directly represent a credible threat to the USA and her allies and save innocent lives? This striking with drones has the danger of creating more enemies than when we started. <br /><br />And we still have soldiers in harm's way--just not enough across-society sacrifice for average people to care as much about them as we all should. <br /><br /><br />The Kremlin seemed to have had no trouble bombing Chechnya. The Chinese government seem to have no trouble kiIIing Muslim Uighurs and Tibetans as they feel the need to. Yet the USA is not Russia or China; the allies we have expect more from America. This is the crux of the bind--national security versus respect for international law and our own legal system which has traditionally been more open than the two powers I mentioned.doug noakeshttp://dnoakes.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-66332279574325936902012-05-31T20:24:54.000-07:002012-05-31T20:24:54.000-07:00You know I don't know what to think about Amer...You know I don't know what to think about America anymore on the one hand you don't want our soldiers put in harms way on the other hand when the Military and not just OBAMA does something all of a sudden you are ready to crucify him --I think some people better get their priorities straight--<br />sorry doug but this kind of stuff gets my goat and people better learn to think for themselves rather than follow these self made Gurusheidi breuerhttp://starfishred.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-29820217717800210922012-05-31T19:53:40.000-07:002012-05-31T19:53:40.000-07:00I think there is a lot of sense to that, Tinh. Vo...I think there is a lot of sense to that, Tinh. Voters are focused on the economy as far as I can see from polling. doug noakeshttp://dnoakes.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-11476133578870971302012-05-31T19:20:53.000-07:002012-05-31T19:20:53.000-07:00If I were Obama, I would worry less about Afghanis...If I were Obama, I would worry less about Afghanistan (he already killed Osama Bin Laden which is HUGE) and focus more on the economy. There might be a conservative conspiracy to distract Obama's attention from the economy so that they can blame him for it later.Tịnh Bối 's Bloghttp://tinhboi.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-74766055011905174962012-05-31T18:00:27.000-07:002012-05-31T18:00:27.000-07:00I owe you a lot of the inspiration for this one, W...I owe you a lot of the inspiration for this one, Will. doug noakeshttp://dnoakes.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2503771624520315711.post-51628040241682692802012-05-31T16:45:03.000-07:002012-05-31T16:45:03.000-07:00You know my opinion on this one, Doug....You know my opinion on this one, Doug....Astra Navigohttp://astranavigo08.multiply.comnoreply@blogger.com